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Added: September 29, 2009

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Thiele Campaigns To Push Salt Water Fishing License Start To January 2010

  |   18 Comments

New York State Assemblyman Fred Thiele (R-Sag Harbor) is seeking to delay the starting date of a controversial law requiring salt water fishermen to obtain licenses from the state until January 2010. Photos by Andrea Aurichio

Southampton - New York State Assemblyman Fred Thiele (R-Sag Harbor) is seeking to delay the starting date of a controversial law requiring salt water fishermen to obtain licenses from the state until January 2010. The controversial law enacted during the last legislative session is scheduled to go into effect on Oct. 1, 2009.

The law enacted as a line item in the state budget last spring has been hotly contested by Town Trustees in four of the five towns on the East End where citizens are guaranteed the right to "fish free" according to the terms of the Dongan Patent written in 1686. The call for repeal was lead by the Southampton Town Trustees last spring after the budget was adopted and word of the new law spread. The licensing provision escaped notice by local boards since it was not introduced as a freestanding piece of legislation.

Trustees from East Hampton, Southold and Shelter Island quickly joined with Southampton in their protest. Thiele followed suit promising to call for repeal last spring however, the Assemblyman did not introduce legislation to that effect before the session ended in June.

The Dongan Patent has been upheld in the courts in numerous cases over the years by judges who noted the Patent was just as valid in contemporary times as it was when it was written. The Patent established the Board of Trustees as the first governing bodies in the East End towns. The Trustees contend the state does not have the authority to charge salt water fishermen a license fee. Although New York State issues licenses for fresh water fishing and hunting, salt water fishing was not included in this category until April 2009. Those opposing the fee point to the state's increasing tendency to generate revenues by charging fees such as the equally controversial payroll tax to bridge the budget gap.

The entire board is committed to exploring all means available to them to uphold the Dongan Patent. Civil disobedience and litigation have not been ruled out as the state moves the enforcement date to January 2010.


"Thiele is taking this opportunity to introduce the roll back in the Senate so it gets past both houses," Southampton Town Trustee Eric Schultz said, noting the confusion in Albany last June as the session drew to a close left the Senate in disarray preventing Assemblyman Thiele from getting his motion on the floor. The House has already approved the Jan. 1, 2010 date before they adjourned for the summer recess.

The move is aimed at giving town officials more time to prepare to comply with the law rather than implementing the program in October as the year draws to an end. The permits, which are to be issued annually, will cost the towns money to implement. Residents and non-residents may purchase permits at their local town halls or at fishing and bait and tackle shops if they can find owners willing to cooperate with the state law. Many owners of these retail establishments have turned out to protest the law joining with the Trustees in their opposition.

Trustees Edward Warner and Eric Schulz joined in the discussion of the opposition to the salt water fishing license.

Town residents can expect to pay $10 for an annual license. The fee for non-residents will be $15. In addition, the state will sell day permits for $4 and weekly permits for $8. Charter boats will be charged a $400 annual fee beginning on Oct. 1, unless the rollback is implemented by both houses of the legislature when the session resumes.

The licensing provision will be implemented by the New York State Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) and administered by each town. According to state officials licensing fees charged for salt water fishing are expected to generate an estimated $3 million for the state.

Still Seeking Appeal
Trustees from the four towns involved remained committed to exploring ways to repeal the law citing the Dongan Patent. In Southampton feelings ran high when the licensing law was enacted in April. The Trustees vowed to fight for the right to fish free maintaining they would indemnify their citizens if they were apprehended for fishing without a license. A major contention in the opposition to the measure is that
revenue generated from the license will not be used to benefit the East End towns much to the chagrin of the Trustees as the money will be funneled back to the state DEC and used at its discretion.

While the move for repeal is strong it remains to be seen if Assemblyman Thiele can garner support for a downstate issue that is of paramount importance to Long Island but has little play in Oswego or elsewhere in the state where votes would be needed to pass the bill. This week speculation mounted as the stripe bass season approached and fishermen wondered if the town could trump the state and effectively protest the coming licensing fees.



Comments

Guest (Eden maxime) from new york says:
i, would like to apply for salt fishing license

Guest (tina piette) from east hampton says:
Armand Alvared: I can't do that although I wish I could!! A sound idea. Only elected officials can propose changes to the current law. I truly appreciate that you care about this issue, as do I. Contact Governor Patterson's office to voince you opposition. Call Ken LaValle or Fred Thiele's office to see when the next meeting or hearing is. Write a letter, show up, and vote, vote, vote locally for those who are advocating for the non-payment of a "fishing tax" to the DEC. Show up when the hearings take place. That's all you (or I) can do.

Guest (armand alvarad) from long beach says:
Hi about this license thing i think is crazy doing this to us what about the kids do they need to get license to? oh wow! all this new changing that is going on right now doesn't make not sense that all is all politics, whos is going to take all the money? the people of New York should do something about it, next time you need a vote from us you won't get it thank you for nothing mr Paterson, what about the kids? do they need to pay to? oh man i can believe this happening here land of the freedom? what freedom is this? no one is going to stop this...hum well there it goes my fun ...

Guest (2 Sides to a Story) from Shelter Island says:
As I said Tina...Earmark any monies generated from the 5 east end towns into 1 fund and establish a hatchery. This way the DEC stormtroopers will not get their hands on it!

Guest (North Sea Citizen) from North Sea says:
This is just another tax by another name. How much is it going to cost to enforce it? Who is going to enforce it? Perhaps Southampton Town could issue a resident license for a minimul amount, then charge a huge fee for out of towners and use the money for improvements to our beach and waterways. After that we should set up a toll bridge at the canal and use the tolls collected to improve our unimproved roads...

Guest (Roger) from Southampton says:
Did they say $10 next year?-or did they mean $50 a few years out? The fee is a crack in the glass that will expand out over time. We can not let them take our money or rights away!

Guest (Tina Piette) from East Hampton says:
YIKES!! 2 Sides to a Story from Shelter Island writes "Why should we complain about having to pay a small fee UNLESS the DEC gets it for their slush fund" Read the article(s) nothing is "coming back" to the local town's hatcheries or fisheries on this one - nothing. It is a tax to make up for shortages in a State budget - nothing more - nothing less. Kudos to Fred Thiele and Ken Lavalle for pointing this out early and upfront, and for standing behind our Town Trustees!! And to Gerard Zoehfeld -- unfortunately your fishing rights in the Town of Oyster Bay (or Putnam County?)are not protected by the Dongan Patent. So while I appreciate your view - don't know how you get there from here, Bub.

Guest (2 Sides to a Story) from Shelter Island says:
This is crazy. Commercial guys have paid fees for years, sometimes thousands of dollars each year. Why should we complain about having to pay a small fee UNLESS the DEC gets it for their slush fund. I say take all the $$ from Salt Water licenses from the 5 East End towns, earmark it and establish a hatchery for restocking shellfish and finfish. Keep the money out of the hands of the DEC stormtroopers! Give it back to ALL anglers!

Guest (angler) from orient says:
Bravo Andrea- for your on going coverage- we know you don't fish, but we see you understand the cause- fish free or die trying-

Guest (Gerard Zoehfeld) from Oyster Bay/ Putnam Valley says:
I am fisherman, surf casting since I was able to at around age 5 or so. Look, the license debate is moot. It is inevitable. Why push back that inevitability? Just have the license dates coincide with the already existing time frame of all other renewals? Please, stop the politicking and get the show on the road. Make fisherman accountable! Make me and everyone else with my love of the water get licenses. Then maybe we can have some funds to start REALLY regulating the bad apples that ruin our wonderful natural resources!!!! ~Gerard

Guest (Terry ) from Flanders says:
I will NOT get a license...this year, next year, or EVER! The Dongan Patent lives!!

Guest (Bob) from East Hampton says:
I have been fishing for the last 60 years and could anyone have ever thought that government now wants to take away ones right to fish? This is the natural progression of government when we vote for politicians that believe that government own our rights and it is up to them to decide what rights they are willing to give back to you. In this case they will give you back your right to fish if you pay them. If we do not fight this through civil disobedience and hopefully a court test by the Trustees, the next step will the the closure of fishing by the DEC for the social good. I would suggest that the Trustees and East End Towns unite behind this cause and take the position that New York State and the DEC has no jurisdiction to enforce any type of fishing regulations (commercial or recreational). If we do not act now, we will most certainly land up begging and groveling with politicians and bureaucrats to get back rights for rights that were never given to them.

Guest (Jan Hanna) from Southampton Town says:
Why does the government, state or federal, feel they need to make it even harder for our local fishermen? They get food for us, and that's an East End tradition which has (barely) survived out here for lo, these many generations. Some years are good, some are bad. Striped bass is plentiful one year, then they're not. Cycles come and go. But how can we live without fishermen? And the more restrictions they continue to place on them, the more difficult it will be for them to stay in business and feed us. How 'bout we make fishermen from OTHER countries pay for "licenses" to fish here and let OUR fishermen fish for free. And by the way, it's really, really hard work. How many of us could do their job?

Guest (jim) from north sea says:
The federal law requires an angler registry, not a license. The thieves in Albany saw this as an opportunity to pick our pockets, once again. Thanks to the Trustees for standing up for us against the DEC once again. No way will I buy a license when my right to fish free is guaranteed by the Dongan Patent, see you in court!

Guest (Publius) from Sag Harbor says:
Nice to see Mr. Thiele take a break from his summer listening tour (where he has been reading polls daily to help decide whether he should be a democrat or a republican) and actually address an issue that is dear to the people. (or, as he calls them, voters)

Guest (Sean Murphy) from Oyster Bay says:
More tyranny from upstate!! Lets secede from the state. Oh wait, we need their money.Better idea lets fish without a license instead.

Guest (Don Rousseau) from Amityville says:
Having fished the salt water for 50 years I will absolutely not pay the clowns in Albany ten dollars to fish for three months. Then next year we will mostly be supplementing the general fund! I guess thats the best a disfunctional govt. in albany can do. This is after getting the piece of garbage fluke regs. jammed down our throats this year.

Guest (mark) from hampton bays says:
Stop the tyranny. Fish free or die!

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